TV Program

Current Episode

High Priest, Low Understanding (Caiaphas)

2008-03-30

PRODUCTION #: 1136

SPEAKER: Shawn Boonstra

GUEST: Richard Stenbakken

Believe it or not, today I’m going to carry you back in time almost 2,000 years and introduce you to someone who played a role in actually crucifying Jesus.

SB (Shawn Boonstra): If you could travel back in time, whom would you choose to visit? Retired Army colonel and chaplain, Richard Stenbakken, has an unusual gift for portraying characters from the pages of the Bible. And today he’s going to help us wade through the complex events that led to Jesus’ death by introducing us to Caiaphas, the high priest who wanted Jesus out of the picture.

So, today put on your thinking cap and have you Bible handy, and let’s pretend for a moment that we’re actually talking to Caiaphas, the high priest. The year is 36 A.D. and the Roman government has just announced that it’s going to replace the high priest Joseph Caiaphas. We’re in the city of Jerusalem to meet his honor, Caiaphas.

SB: Caiaphas, what a delight to have you with us here on the It Is Written program.

C (Caiaphas): It is your pleasure.

SB: Caiaphas, I’ve been given to understand that you’re being replaced, that your tenure as high priest has come to an end. And what I want to know is this a retirement? Have you willingly given up the post, or are you being pushed out of office?

C: No one pushes me around. I’m taking an early retirement. I was named high priest 18 years ago.

SB: Eighteen years ago? By whom?

C: Valerius Gratus.

SB: Ah, so it wasn’t a Hebrew who named you high priest.

C: No. We must work with the Romans, because they governed our area after a fashion.

SB: Well, I’ve been thinking about this. You play a very delicate role in the culture, the economy of the Hebrew people, because here you are standing at the peak of the Hebrews. You’re at the very pinnacle of Hebrew society, and at the same time you have to work with the Romans. And I’m wondering, how do you strike a balance between working with these people you hate, the Romans, and working with your own people? And you have to serve the religious needs of your people.

C: (Chuckles) Well, do you have any idea what my name means?

SB: Caiaphas? Well, I’m a little rusty.

C: Well, let me help you.

SB: Yeah.

C: It means “the searcher,” one who searches diligently, and that’s what I do. I search the scroll. I search history. I search the way people think and it’s because of my own greatness and my own ability that I help keep things together. In fact, you could say that I am the Messiah.

SB: Now Caiaphas, you say you search the scrolls. I don’t understand how you could possibly come to that conclusion? I’ve read the Scriptures and you don’t seem to match the criteria of the prophets who said that the Messiah was coming.

C: The prophets?

SB: Yeah.

C: What prophets?

SB: Well, for example, Daniel, chapter nine.

C: Ah, and I’ll suppose you’ll tell me Isaiah next.

SB: Oh, and Isaiah, too. Absolutely.

C: Well, I don’t follow those at all. You see, I’m a Sadducee, you see. I accept only the books of Moses, the first five books. Now is Daniel in the first five books?

SB: No, Daniel is not in the first five books.

C: That’s right. So just discount what Daniel says.

SB: Isaiah? Not in the first five books.

C: No, write him off.

SB: So you only buy the first five books. Yet in the Book of Genesis, the blessings on the sons of Israel, it talks about Shiloh coming there. Do you see yourself there in Shiloh?

C: Shiloh comes from the one who is peaceable and brings peace. That’s what I do—I bring peace between the Romans and my people, the Jews. I am the one who keeps the Romans from destroying my people.

SB: So you are, in your opinion, in your view, the Messiah?

C: I am.

SB: Listen. I know before I go any further, I can see you’re convinced of it. I want to talk a little bit about the role of high priest. Some people watching today, believe it or not, may never have heard of your position or seen the robes that you wear. We’re broadcasting to the whole world. Would you be willing to take a moment and tell us what you’re wearing and what it represents?

C: I would be delighted.

SB: Okay.

C: These royal robes…these robes were designed by…well, you know Who designed them?

SB: God, Himself.

C: That’s correct.

SB: Yes.

C: And what do you wear…was that designed by God? I don’t think so.

SB: No. No, it is probably seared, yeah.

C: This was designed by God and on my heart I wear…how many stones do you see?

SB: Twelve stones.

C: Okay, I’m glad you can count that high.

SB: Well, it’s tough.

C: These represent the twelve tribes of Israel. I bear them on my heart. And the stones here, they are engraved with the names. The bells on the bottom and the pomegranates, these were designed by God to show His creation, the Out of, all of these things, these were all done, and I represent God on Earth.

SB: Wow.

C: Yes, wow.

SB: That’s quite a statement to be making.

C: Do you read Hebrew?

SB: Well, it’s been a long time. I usually need a lexicon.

C: Can you read that?

SB: Well, if I were to translate it I’d say holiness to the Lord?

C: Holy onto the Lord. That’s right. And I am a holy man. I am the One.

SB: Now these two stones, the top ones are for support—the other stones?

C: These are called the Urim and Thummim.

SB: I remember reading about those in the Scriptures. Sure.

C: Yes. Well, in the days of Moses when the people had a need for an answer, one of these would glow with light from inside to say yes or no.

SB: Okay, and I’ve noticed they don’t seem to glow.

C: We don’t need them anymore. As long as I make the decisions, that’s sufficient.

SB: So, you really are God’s representative on Earth? That’s the way you view your position?

C: It’s not the way I view it. It’s the way it is.

SB: Well, then that creates an interesting situation, because I’ve done a little study of your tenure as high priest, and here you are God’s representative on Earth, and so on.

C: I’m glad you see it that way, too.

SB: Well, I’m not sure I do, because as I read about your career, I see this person who comes into play, Jesus of Nazareth, and everybody’s heard of Him that’s watching today. I want to know, what was your first knowledge of Jesus of Nazareth?

C: My first knowledge? I heard about Him going through the fields with His ragtag follower disciples and breaking the Sabbath.

SB: Breaking the Sabbath? I’ve read the Scriptures. How is it? I mean…Jesus breaking the Sabbath?

C: Can you do common work on Sabbath?

SB: Well, I…

C: Can you? Yes or no?

SB: My question is this: Was Jesus doing common work on Sabbath? Was He harvesting for profit?

C: They were reaping grain.

SB: Or were they eating?

C: They were reaping grain and I am the one who decides what is and what is not Sabbath-breaking. How about this one? He went to the synagogue. There’s this doddering old man with his crippled hand, right in the synagogue He healed him.

SB: Yes.

C: Or so the story goes.

SB: And wouldn’t you want him healed?

C: The next day or the day before. Why desecrate the Sabbath? Why in the synagogue?

SB: Why not?

C: Don’t you see He was trying to overtake everything that we stood for?

SB: Well, how did Jesus defend it? How did He defend healing a man on the Sabbath? Did He not raise the issue of livestock and things that are of value?

C: He had no right to break our laws. He was leading people away.

SB: So, as I understand, Jesus of Nazareth posed a real problem for you.

C: Of course He posed a problem for us.

SB: So you weren’t altogether unhappy when Jesus came to trial?

You were there at the trial. What was your position?

C: How do you think it came to trial? I helped it happen. You see, if He had gone on the way He was going on, the Romans would have come in and crushed my people.

SB: Right. So what was your position in this trial? You called for it. Where are you in this trial?

C: I was in charge, of course.

SB: You’re in charge. I thought, you know, as I’ve read history…wasn’t your father in charge?

C: Oh, Annas, the high priest of course. He was high priest for 25 years. And by the way his son, Jonathan, will take my place shortly, as I retire. He’s my father-in-law, so yes, we’ve been the priestly family for years.

SB: Now, I’ve looked at this. Your dad is, well, dad, or you—somebody is in charge there, calling the trial of Jesus.

C: We shared our concerns for the people.

SB: Very good. Fine. But your concern for the scrolls, and your concern for the laws, and your concern for the things that God gave your people, here I see you, at the trial of Jesus Christ, tearing your robes. Now tell me that you were allowed to tear the robes.

C: Well, according to Leviticus, the priest is forbidden to do that.

SB: Yeah.

C: But don’t you understand? I had to make a statement. They had to know that this man had to be dealt with. I had to do something drastic and I did.

SB: So, if Jesus heals a sick man on the Sabbath, that’s out of line. But if you decide to tear the robes, that’s all right?

C: Yes.

SB: What of the fact that Jesus’ trial was held at night? Wasn’t that illegal?

C: No, that was a pretrial. We had a trial during the day as well.

SB: Uh huh, the next day.

C: Do you debate with that?

SB: No. No. The next day there was trial, but the issue I would take with that is you executed Him the same day. Wasn’t that also illegal?

C: You want us to execute Him on the High Holy Day—on the Sabbath? Are you a Sabbath breaker?

SB: No, I’m not. But let me ask you…

C: Well, are you asking me to break the Sabbath?

SB: So you did what was expedient when you decided.

C: Life is expedient. You see, as a Sadducee, I believe that there is no resurrection. There is life here and now and so you have to act in the here and the now, because that’s all you have. Do you understand that?

SB: Let me get to brass tacks. Let me get right down to some of what I see is the heart of the issue in this story. And let me ask you: Jesus was healing people, Jesus was teaching people, Jesus was giving them hope; He never laid a hand on anybody, and yet you and the Sanhedrin, you reject Jesus and you make this decision that He needs to die?

C: Have you ever heard of a mosquito?

SB: I sure have.

C: If one were to bite you on the hand, what would you do?

SB: Well, my natural instinct is to swat it.

C: Yes, and that’s exactly what we did. Jesus was causing trouble. You see, if He had these people starting to follow Him, and He was getting a following, and all of these charades that were called miracles, then the Romans would come in. They would crush the people. They would tear down the temple. Don’t you understand that can’t be? So, it had to be stopped.

SB: I think I do understand; it’s not people that were being crushed. I hear you say the temple is crushed—Caiaphas is actually crushed.

C: Everything is crushed. Well, it hasn’t just to do with me. It has to do with the nation. That’s why I’m the Messiah. I’m the one that stands in the breach between the Romans and the Jews. These people, if they were to revolt, everything would come to an end.

SB: So Jesus’ offense, in your opinion, is worthy of death?

C: Yes.

SB: All right. Listen, I’ve been listening to what you say and you’re the spiritual leader in Israel. And I expected to hear a lot of spiritual answers, but I hear politics in the answers that you’re giving me. I hear worry about the Romans and the government and who is in control and who has power. What about your spiritual obligations?

C: What about them? Don’t you think taking care of the temple and the people is a spiritual obligation, upholding the laws, upholding the traditions of the people? This isn’t spiritual?

SB: You made the statement to the effect, and I quote, “It is expedient that one man should die for the people,” something to that effect.

C: Yes.

SB: What exactly did you mean by that?

C: Exactly what I said, it’s expedient. If He was causing trouble, if He was a threat to the whole system, the whole thing could topple in. It’s expedient. It’s wisdom, my wisdom, to crush Him rather than have Him crush the nation and the people.

SB: In your opinion, if Jesus is considered a king by people, that’s going to create problems.

C: Yes. It would create problems. You think the emperor in Rome would stand for another king?

SB: Well, listen. You don’t seem to have a problem with Herod. Herod is another king, isn’t he?

C: Herod is a puppet of the Romans and everyone knows it. This man was talking and he has people talking about overthrowing everything. You see, my people want the Romans out of here as do I. But we have to coexist. You have to make some adjustments, don’t you understand?

SB: I can see how you come to the conclusion. Caiaphas, I want to get right to the heart of the matter. I want to get past the issue of the Romans and the Jews, and your office, and the political issues, and I want to get right down to the person of Jesus Christ, because the people who are watching today have heard of Him. And that’s what they want to know. What about it? You brought Him to trial.

C: Yes, multiple times I brought Him to trial.

SB: Right.

C: You know so much about Scripture. What is the perfect number?

SB: Scripturally? Seven.

C: All right. There were seven trials, and He was found guilty at every one.

SB: Well, take me through them.

C: All right. The first one was my father-in-law. He went to his house first. Then He came to my house.

SB: Okay.

C: Then we have the Sanhedrin brought together that evening to examine everything.

SB: Right. Okay, but you call that a pretrial.

C: That’s a pretrial. Yes. But that still counts.

SB: Okay.

C: And then the Sanhedrin met in the morning, and He was found guilty there.

SB: What did you find Jesus guilty of?

C: I asked Him, I said, “I order you, by the God of creation, to tell us who you are. Are you the Son of God?

SB: And Jesus said?

C: At first He said nothing.

SB: Oh, you got Him to talk?

C: Well, His demeanor, the reports that came to us, you think I do this out of the air? No, I had reports of what He had said, what He was teaching. He said He was the Son of God. That’s when I tore my robes.

SB: Caiaphas, you faced a problem at this point, because you’ve got what you consider the charge of blasphemy against Jesus.

C: Absolutely.

SB: It wasn’t easy to find witnesses either, was it?

C: There were plenty of witnesses.

SB: None that you had to pay?

C: How dare you.

SB: Well, I have to ask the question, Caiaphas. And if He’s guilty of blasphemy, you have a problem, because there’s not a thing you can do about blasphemy is there? And the Romans aren’t going to do anything about it either.

C: It’s more than that. If He says that He’s a king, which he said He was.

SB: Right.

C: He said He was a king. You remember that?

SB: Yeah… of whom?

C: Okay. He said He was a king. Rome would not stand for that.

SB: So now you need to change the charge. For you, blasphemy is convenient, but you know that’s not going to sell in a Roman court.

C: It’s not a matter of convenience. It’s a matter of collection, and collectively He was guilty of breaking the law. He was guilty of blasphemy. He was guilty of sedition with the Romans.

SB: So now He moves to a Roman court?

C: Of course.

SB: Where’d you send Him?

C: (Laughter) I sent him to Pilate. Okay? I sent him to Pilate. Pilate examined Him three times and Herod examined him.

SB: And what did they find? If I remember correctly, Pilate didn’t find anything.

C: Well, at first he didn’t and then when he heard that Jesus said that He was going to be a king. That is sedition. That is against Roman law and that, with the charges we were bringing against Him, was enough to convince Pilate. And Pilate then sent Him to the cross. Don’t you remember that?

SB: I do.

C: All right.

SB: I do. I also remember that it wasn’t Pilate calling for the cross. It seems to me that he made that decision at someone else’s request.

C: Of course, why do you think we took him to Pilate? The Romans had the right to crucify. The Romans had the right to kill.

SB: Listen, from Pilate, where does He go?

C: Well, from Pilate He went to Herod, and He came back to Pilate. And then when we cried out, as we had to do, Pilate caved in to us. So who’s in charge? Pilate?

SB: I guess through the political pressure, you guys made a decision. It seems like a lot of people made the decision that day.

C: That’s right. A lot of people did make a decision and He was crucified.

SB: So you brought Jesus everywhere. Everybody’s involved in the decision to have Jesus die?

C: Of course, you see, that’s why I’m the Messiah. I can pull all these various people together to get something done.

SB: You know, it’s interesting; I know a lot of people watching today will find it interesting. Everybody was responsible. Everybody had a part to play in the crucifixion of Jesus.

C: So did you.

SB: I know I did. Let’s talk about the Crucifixion, Caiaphas. I can’t imagine you missed that. You’d been waiting for that, hadn’t you?

C: I was there. I was there. In fact, I was the one that said, “If you are who you say you are, if God loves you so much, then He’d come down and save you.” And did that happen? Did it happen?

SB: No. He didn’t come down.

C: No. It didn’t happen.

SB: Is it possible that if He would have come down, all would have been lost for Him?

C: I don’t know what you mean.

SB: Let me ask you this, because you had a lot of trouble seeing Jesus the way others saw him. I know that He had a following and that bothered you. And you couldn’t see what they saw in Jesus, or you chose not to see what they saw in Jesus. And I have to ask you this. As you stand at the cross and you see Jesus there, is there nothing inside of you that says you might be wrong? Is there nothing there that makes you believe that maybe Jesus is Messiah?

C: What? That I would be wrong and He would be right? Now you blaspheme.

SB: When did Jesus ever threaten anything in Israel? When did He threaten you?

C: He threatened everything, don’t you understand? He threatened everything. He threatened the temple. He threatened the people. He threatened Rome coming in. He threatened everything.

SB: You know, you say He threatened the temple. I have to believe that somewhere in your heart there was something that bothered you when Jesus said that the temple would be torn down and rise in three days. He meant a number of things there that I don’t think you saw. But at the same time, as Jesus is on the cross, the veil in the temple is ripped in two, isn’t it?

C: I wasn’t there. I was at the cross.

SB: Uh, huh, but it was ripped in two, was it not?

C: Yes, it was torn.

SB: You can’t deny it.

C: I don’t deny it. Of course, I don’t deny it.

SB: So who ripped the veil in two?

C: I don’t know who ripped it. That temple veil is as thick as my hand.

SB: Yeah, I don’t think I could do it.

C: It takes 200 priests to raise it from the floor. There was an earthquake. I don’t know whether it…

SB: Come on Caiaphas…and the earthquake ripped the veil in two?

C: I don’t know. I wasn’t there. So, if it was ripped from bottom to top, top to bottom, side to side, it doesn’t matter. The most holy place was exposed.

SB: Yeah, and on the very day the man who said He was the Messiah died. It doesn’t speak to your heart at all? It doesn’t say anything to you?

C: It says that He’s an impostor.

SB: An impostor? Whose grave was empty a few days later?

C: Oh, grave empty. They stole the body.

SB: They stole the body?

C: The soldiers said that. You know that. Read it.

SB: Well, I know the soldiers said that. What I find a little bit curious, Caiaphas, is what the Roman soldier is going to admit. They said they slept and while they were sleeping, someone came and stole the body.

C: That’s right, that’s what they said.

SB: Yeah, I know they said that. That would cost them their lives to sleep on duty. Come on. What would motivate them to say that?

C: I have no idea.

SB: Is it possible somebody paid those men to tell a different story?

C: Are you accusing me?

SB: I think I might be.

C: How dare you!

SB: Well, tell me you didn’t pay people in this trial. Tell me that Judas didn’t receive money.

C: Well, Judas came to us. We didn’t go to Judas. Judas was the one who came to us and said, “If you want to take Him, I’ll lead the charge.” One of his own betrayed Him. I didn’t have to go after Judas. Judas came to me. Yes, I gave him a gratuity of 30 pieces of silver. Why not?

SB: He tried to return it?

C: He threw it back in the temple.

SB: Right.

C: In gratitude…

SB: And what did you say to him?

C: He came and he said, “I’ve betrayed innocent blood.”

“Oh,” I said, “basically, that’s your problem, not mine.”

SB: So, you knew people were saying Jesus was innocent? It didn’t bother you at all?

C: You would believe in Judas? Do you believe in Judas?

SB: Well, I would say Judas probably wasn’t my role model.

C: Yeah, well…

SB: But, somebody as hardened as Judas, I mean, someone who betrays his own, has a change of mind?

C: It doesn’t matter. This Jesus was causing problems and they had to end. And it’s up to me to do it, and I did it.

SB: Took care of business, did you?

C: Absolutely.

SB: And it doesn’t bother you? You say the body’s been stolen. You know in your heart that’s not true—you have an empty grave. And now even after you’ve gotten rid of Jesus, Caiaphas, in your mind He’s gone out of the picture. The problem didn’t go away, did it?

C: No, these disciples, these stupid followers of His…

SB: But didn’t it bother you that a guy like Peter, who is deathly afraid of you and deathly afraid of the Romans, a few days later, is emboldened, and he can preach in front of everybody, and he’s telling the very things that might cost him his life. Didn’t it bother you? Something happened to Peter. He saw something.

C: He went mad, this stupid, dumb fisherman, this Galilean. What right does he have to challenge us?

SB: They brought Peter right in front of you?

C: Yes, and I told him not to preach anymore in this man’s name.

SB: Right. Here’s what’s interesting. There was somebody there who’d been healed, and everybody around you said, “Look, we can’t avoid this. Here’s a man we know who was sick and has been healed.”

C: Well, who knows? I think this was all put up. I think it was just all fake.

SB: Caiaphas, it tells us the whole city of Jerusalem is talking about it. Everybody is buying into a fake? The whole city is in on it?

C: That’s why I told Him not to preach in this. That is why I had Him put in prison.

SB: It didn’t stop Him, either.

C: To shut Him up.

SB: Right. They kept going, didn’t they? Listen. Let me ask you this: What do you think history is going to say about Caiaphas? You’re 18 years as high priest. What’s history going to say?

C: What will they say of me? They will say, “Joseph Caiaphas, the greatest man in history.” That’s what they will say.

SB: You know I have the vantage point of history; it’s 2,000 years later. We look back on history. What would you say if you knew that 2,000 years later, people still know Jesus as the Messiah, and your name only comes up as a minor player in the incident?

C: Then they would be wrong, dead wrong.

SB: Jesus made you a promise, didn’t He? He made you a promise.

C: Yes, He did.

SB: Caiaphas…

C: You. You’re probably a believer, too, aren’t you?

SB: I sure am.

C: Well, I don’t have to stick around for this! I don’t have to listen to you! You’re just as bad as that crazy Peter. I’m gone. I’m out of here. I don’t need you.

(Caiaphas storms out of the room.)

SB: As you think about Caiaphas, I want to draw your attention to a little known statement that’s found in the Bible over in the Book of Revelation. Here it is (Revelation 1:7):

“Behold, He’s coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.”

The Bible says that those who pierced Jesus are going to see Him come, and in Matthew chapter 26, Jesus says to Caiaphas (Matthew 26:64):

“Jesus said to him, ‘It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.’”

There is going to be a special arrangement to make sure that Caiaphas sees the Second Coming of Christ. And he’s not going to see it from the perspective that excites him, because at that moment, he’ll know he blew it—he is lost.

So, let me ask you an all-important question today. The Bible says that some people, when they see Jesus come, they will cry for the rocks and mountains to fall on them, because they’ll know they waited just a little too long. They never accepted Christ. They never accepted the gift of salvation and they charted their own course through life.

But in the Book of Isaiah we are told that there is this other group that gets excited. They cry out, “This is our God, we’ve waited for Him!”

So, the question really is very simple for you. There are only two groups. Which one do you belong to? I’d invite you to pray with me right now.

PRAYER:

Father in heaven, sometimes because our eyes are on ourselves we’re too blind to see who Jesus is. Our own agenda gets in the way, and so today, as we stand at the foot of the cross, we ask that you would teach us to see Jesus clearly, that we would understand who He is and what that cross means for our eternal life. We want to surrender our hearts to a God that loves us this much. Teach us to see clearly. Speak to our hearts and save us for the kingdom. We ask in Jesus’ name, Amen.

To learn more about Richard Stenbakken and his DVD series, please visit www.dickstenbakken.com.

Scriptures Used in “High Priest, Low Understanding (Caiaphas)”

“Behold, He’s coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.”
—Revelation 1:7

“Jesus said to him, ‘It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.’”
—Matthew 26:64